Over at Green Baggins the hot topic of late has been the relationship between the distinction between law and gospel and the doctrine of justification by faith alone (see the posts spanning from 3/29/10 - 4/2/10 in particular). The question being raised is, “Can someone who denies the law/gospel distinction [LGD] simultaneously affirm sola fide without messing everything up in the process?” Lane’s answer has been “No,” and he has gone so far as to call out men like Doug Wilson for their inconsistency in this regard. Once you start calling faith a work and the law the gospel, your sola fide street cred pretty much goes out the window.In following the discussion it has become apparent that there is a lot of confusion surrounding this idea that the law and the gospel must be kept distinct. In this post I’d like to offer a few clarifying points to help people understand what we mean by the LGD.
First, it’s not a Lutheran (as opposed to Reformed) distinction. Sure, the Reformed often couch the LGD in covenantal language and speak rather of the distinction between the covenants of works and grace, but the same principle is being referred to. See Michael Horton’s “Calvin and the Law-Gospel Hermeneutic” for more on this.
Furthermore, the LGD is relevant to the issue of justification specifically, not to every single verse in the Bible. In other words, it is not to be used when discussing, say, Paul’s admonition to “reckon yourselves dead to sin and alive to God” (Rom. 6:11) concluding that, since we’re dealing with an imperative it must be classified as “law,” and since the law’s only function is to accuse us and drive us to Christ, therefore this passage is intended by the apostle to show me my need for Jesus. Though there is a whole host of interrelated issues involved in this discussion, suffice it to say here that the law has more functions beyond merely threatening us, and that passages dealing with sanctification, though undeniably “law,” should not be minimized or treated as merely preparatory for the gospel. In short, sanctification proceeds from justification, kind of like how Romans 6 follows Romans 1-5.
So when the issue at hand is the narrow issue of justification, the LGD teaches us to recognize two distinct ways that a sinner can expect to be declared righteous in God’s heavenly court. The first way is by perfectly keeping his law (which no one, after the fall, can do), the second way is by receiving and resting upon Christ and his obedience and sacrifice on our behalf. So if we are seeking to exegete a passage about how to be accepted before God, we understand that there are two ways this can happen, and we ought never to confuse the former (law) with the latter (gospel). See Phil. 3:9.
For an excellent treatment, see Meredith Kline's "Covenant Theology Under Attack."
Lastly (and as I indicated above), law and gospel refer to the covenants of works and grace respectively, meaning that if someone denies the essential, qualitative distinction between the pre- and post-fall covenants, he has implicitly denied the LGD, albeit perhaps unwittingly. When this happens, we also implicitly deny sola fide, for we are saying that the way to be justified before God is to exhibit faithful obedience in order to be accepted. This confuses works with faith (and, therefore, law with gospel) and is a perversion not only of Pauline theology, but of confessional Reformed theology as well. If there are ministers or elders espousing such ideas in a Presbyterian or Reformed church, they need to be admonished and urged to recant, or tried and deposed from their churches.
OK, you can go ahead and yell at me now....
Lastly (and as I indicated above), law and gospel refer to the covenants of works and grace respectively, meaning that if someone denies the essential, qualitative distinction between the pre- and post-fall covenants, he has implicitly denied the LGD, albeit perhaps unwittingly. When this happens, we also implicitly deny sola fide, for we are saying that the way to be justified before God is to exhibit faithful obedience in order to be accepted. This confuses works with faith (and, therefore, law with gospel) and is a perversion not only of Pauline theology, but of confessional Reformed theology as well. If there are ministers or elders espousing such ideas in a Presbyterian or Reformed church, they need to be admonished and urged to recant, or tried and deposed from their churches.
OK, you can go ahead and yell at me now....

Historically speaking, the rejection of the LGD is neonomianism.
ReplyDeleteRomans 2:16
ReplyDelete"on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus."
2 Thessalonians 1:8
"inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."
1 Peter 4:17
"what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?"
Curtis,
ReplyDeleteThanks for pointing out those passages.
The thing is, there is often in Scripture a narrow and a broad way that terms or concepts are used. For example, an "apostle" is nothing more than a person sent by someone else. But the common word becomes a technical term after the resurrection (like with baptism).
Now when we're talking about the gospel, the word can be used broadly to refer to the general message of the apostles (which is how your passages are using it), but it can also be understood in a stricter and more systematic fashion, referring to the antidote to law and bad news.
So my point is not that the narrower systematic definition can be plugged into every text where "gospel" is used. That's not how we do real theology, it's mere biblicism. My point is that Paul sets two principles of inheritance in opposition to one another, one works, the other faith.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear that up.
But men deny the "essential, qualitative distinction between the pre- and post-fall covenants" all the time, when they claim that the Mosaic covenant is a republication of the Covenant of Works.
ReplyDeleteWell, the Reformed tradition begs to differ, as we have always affirmed both that the covenants of works and grace are qualitatively distinct, and that the Mosaic covenant was a typological covenant of works. Perhaps you're not altogether clear on what we mean when we say this?
ReplyDeleteHey, Jason --
ReplyDeleteYou wrote Now when we're talking about the gospel, the word can be used broadly to refer to the general message of the apostles (which is how your passages are using it), but it can also be understood in a stricter and more systematic fashion, referring to the antidote to law and bad news.
I'd never thought about this before: is there anyplace in the NT where the word evangelion is used with the precise sense that we give it theologically now (as in the LGD)? Or is the "stricter and more systematic use" a post-canonical one? (Kind of like "sanctification.")
Q2: Do all Reformed folks agree that the Mosaic Covenant was a typological covenant of works? Isn't this kind of a bone of contention? I've been trying to sort out what people think, and there seems to be a range here...
It's true that I might not be altogether clear on what you mean, but my reading of the WCF seems to show two covenants, works and grace, with every covenant after the fall a dispensation of the covenant of grace.
ReplyDeleteSo I would conclude that if one looks at one of the Covenants under the CofG (Sinai) and call it a CofW, one has denied, under your description, LGD. Albeit perhaps unwittingly.
I should add that I don't think the WCF defines the entire Reformed world, so there may be other Reformed Churches which do allow a "republication" theology, so it may in fact be "reformed." I'm far less knowledgeable with other confessions.
ReplyDeleteBut you simply can't say that Reformed theology has "always affirmed . . . that the Mosaic covenant was a typological covenant of works" unless you exclude Westminster from Reformed Theology.
1189chapters wrote: "my reading of the WCF seems to show two covenants, works and grace, with every covenant after the fall a dispensation of the covenant of grace."
ReplyDeleteBut then there's that whole pesky, if not inconsistent, chapter 19, sections 1–2.
Paige,
ReplyDeleteI'd never thought about this before: is there anyplace in the NT where the word evangelion is used with the precise sense that we give it theologically now (as in the LGD)? Or is the "stricter and more systematic use" a post-canonical one? (Kind of like "sanctification.")
No, I am not aware of a usage of evangelion in the NT that is strictly coextensive with how we understand "faith" or "grace," but that was never really my point. My point is that there are two distinct principles of inheritance, works and grace, and that we can talk about them systematically under the rubric of law and gospel.
Do all Reformed folks agree that the Mosaic Covenant was a typological covenant of works?
No, not exactly. There have been a variety of ways we have dealt with the Mosaic covenant, but the fact that we have seen it as problematic only shows that its legal nature needs to be reconciled with the post-fall covenant of grace. Men like Samuel Bolton and Edward Fisher argued for a typological interpretation.
The Mosaic covenant is never said to be a covenant of grace, but an administration of the covenant of grace. So, though it is a legal covenant strictly speaking (offering blessings for obedience and threatening curses for disobedience), its role in the economy of redemption is to demonstrate Israel's need of a Savior.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that's a strong argument for a republication theology in the WCF.
ReplyDelete19.2 refers to the 10 commandments/moral law, and suggests that the law given to Adam was in fact the 10 commandments in "short form." You can tell this from 19.3, which adds to the "moral law" the ceremonial and civil laws of Sinai. 19.5 says that the moral law given "republished" to Moses actually remains binding all of us under the New Covenant. It couldn't possibly be "law" to Moses and "grace" to us.
If it were an inconsistency then every minister would have to take an exception to one or the other, right? (At least in the PCA).
Sorry, JJS, you got in while I was writing. That last one wasn't for you, obviously.
ReplyDeleteOne of its purposes is to demonstrate Israel's need of a Savior, but it also instructed the faithful how to live and worship. After all, if ALL it did was point out Israel's need for a savior, why would Paul use Leviticus to tell people to pay their pastors? (1 Tim 5:18)
But that being said, I'm sure you know that "republication" theology goes well beyond what you are stating here. It was a covenant of works, the same covenant Adam was under. That, in my view (and the bulk of Reformed history, so far as I know), transgresses the what the WCF allows.
What's this about a "legal covenant" because it offered blessings and curses? We all agree that the Covenant with Abraham was a covenant of grace, right? Even though it brought curses for failing to circumcise?
'Course, I don't want to toss anybody over it, but, you know, I'm just sayin' . . .
WSC 44 A: "The preface to the ten commandments teacheth us, That because God is the Lord, and our God, and Redeemer, therefore we are bound to keep all his commandments." Since when has redeemer been a CoW thing? While the idea of republication is necessary for a proper 1st use of the law, the preface of the decalogue, as WSC 44 requires also encompasses the 3rd use of the law, so it cannot be limited to republication only.
ReplyDeleteJJS-
ReplyDelete...but that was never really my point.
Yep yep yep. Didn't say it was! Just curious suddenly about the use of the word. :)
Thanks!
A. Duggan: good point. It seems that the best description of the CofW vs. CofG is that the CofW made no provision for any transgressions thereof. Do it and live, fail and die.
ReplyDeleteLev. 1-4, Deut. 10 and 30 make it clear that there the Sinaitic covenant was a function of the heart and made provision for failure. The only way to "sin your way out of" the C w/Moses was to abandon the Lord entirely - (Deut 30:17). Certainly, we can no more abandon Christ to worship some other god than Israel could.
If there's redemption, it's grace.
1189 chapters,
ReplyDeleteOne of its purposes is to demonstrate Israel's need of a Savior, but it also instructed the faithful how to live and worship. After all, if ALL it did was point out Israel's need for a savior, why would Paul use Leviticus to tell people to pay their pastors? (1 Tim 5:18)
Yes, we have never denied that one of the law’s functions was to govern Israel’s conduct. But in so doing, it also accomplished another function, namely, to show them their need for a perfect law-keeper. These two go together.
But that being said, I'm sure you know that "republication" theology goes well beyond what you are stating here. It was a covenant of works, the same covenant Adam was under. That, in my view (and the bulk of Reformed history, so far as I know), transgresses the what the WCF allows.
No one is saying that the Mosaic covenant was a covenant of works in exactly the same way as the prefall covenant was for Adam. What we are saying is that the Mosaic covenant was a typological covenant of works that basically said to Israel, “If you obey me, you can maintain your status of blessing in the land.” Now of course, in order for God to tell the Adamic story again, there needed to be some revisions to the arrangement, one of which was to NOT expect every Israelite to obey the law perfectly and completely (or else they would have marched across the Jordan straight into exile). Rather, what God was looking for was a relative national obedience to his laws in order for Israel to retain their blessed status in Canaan.
What's this about a "legal covenant" because it offered blessings and curses? We all agree that the Covenant with Abraham was a covenant of grace, right? Even though it brought curses for failing to circumcise?
It’s all about who swears the oath. In the Abrahamic covenant, it was YHWH who swore it, promising to keep both his and Abraham’s side of the deal, upon pain of being cut off (which is exactly what happened [to Jesus]). In the Mosaic covenant, it was the people who swore the oath, which is why that covenant was conditional upon the people’s obedience. The fulfillment of that principle is not to be seen in our own lives, as though we are depending upon our own law-keeping for blessing. Rather, the fulfillment of the Mosaic blessing- and curse-sanctions is found in Jesus, the true Israelite, whose law-keeping and curse is what resulted in our being blessed.
Andrew,
ReplyDeleteWSC 44 A: "The preface to the ten commandments teacheth us, That because God is the Lord, and our God, and Redeemer, therefore we are bound to keep all his commandments." Since when has redeemer been a CoW thing? While the idea of republication is necessary for a proper 1st use of the law, the preface of the decalogue, as WSC 44 requires also encompasses the 3rd use of the law, so it cannot be limited to republication only.
See my response to 1189 above. No one is questioning whether or not the Mosaic covenant was tailored to Israel's sinful condition. It absolutely was. But that doesn't change the fact that it was a conditional covenant that promised blessings for obedience and cursings for disobedience. Its fulfillment is found in Christ, whose law-keeping insures for us the true and heavenly Canaan, of which the land that Moses promised was but a type.
I know that's the party line, Jason. And it makes sense to me. But that's looking back, post-Christus. I daresay old covenant folk knew nothing of their covenant being a "type."
ReplyDeleteSailhamer, et al., notwithstanding.
ReplyDeleteChris,
ReplyDeleteI know that's the party line, Jason. And it makes sense to me. But that's looking back, post-Christus. I daresay old covenant folk knew nothing of their covenant being a "type."
A couple thoughts.
First, I think your faithful OC Jew would/should have thought to himself, "I sure am thankful for God's covenant with my father Abraham, for that is the basis for my relationship with him. And I'm also thankful for the law and pray that we don't continue breaking it our we'll suffer the curse of exile."
I think it is entirely plausible to say that they thought this way. Note that this person is distinguishing between "I" and "we," meaning that he understands that it may be simultaneously true that he is saved, while the nation is lost. And vice versa.
But an even bigger issue is this: Is it wrong to reinterpret the OC in the light of the New? Your question seems to assume that whatever we say today was true of OT Jews, that they themselves should be able to agree with what we're saying. But that assumption seems wrong to me. With the Christ event, everything that came before suddenly became "old" and "flesh." Therefore our understanding of the OT Jew is actually better than his understanding of himself.
I'll have to admit my waffling on this kind of hermeneutic—out here in the east, the Reformed seminaries might have a little too much higher criticism sneaking around!
ReplyDeleteRegarding the first point, I think an OC Jew could easily think what you write—yet I'm not convinced he would've made the jump from land to salvation (or even considered bifurcating the two), etc.
As to the bigger question, no way, it can't be wrong "to reinterpret the OC in the light of the New." That's what the new covenant prophets did all the time. I guess my default position is caution on this: let the NT authors do that stuff (which I think they do as it relates to this point). We can't—at least not in the same manner. What's more, we're often too quick to punt a given OC event out of its original context and on the head of Jesus, when we should instead be about working our way up from the original context to Jesus.
Not saying you've done that here. Just shooting across the lurkers' bow.
The stupid computer just erased my awesome response, so I'll have to give a lame short response, b/c I'm out of time. There were a lot of qualification in the last one, so you'll just have to be generous and ask questions.
ReplyDeleteWe're discussing whether or not republication theology is a denial of the fundamental distinction between CofW and C of Grace.
You wrote:
accomplished another function, namely, to show them their need for a perfect law-keeper. These two go together.
But the CofW was NOT to show Adam his need for a perfect law-keeper. It was to earn his standing before God.
You wrote:
Rather, what God was looking for was a relative national obedience to his laws in order for Israel to retain their blessed status in Canaan
I say:
This is nothing like the CofW at all. The CofW demanded perfect and flawless obedience. It is entirely LIKE the New Covenant and the Covenant with Abraham, both of which demand "relative" obedience. [Insert qualifications here]
Evidence:
Moses was about to be killed for disobeying the Abrahamic covenant in Exodus 4.
The blessings of the Abrahamic covenant were at least partially dependent on Abraham's obedience to sacrifice Isaac.
God promises to take away sin when people make sacrifices (I'm thinking of Leviticus 4:20 "Thus shall he do with the bull. As he did with the bull of the sin offering, so shall he do with this. And the priest shall make atonement for them, and they shall be forgiven.") Either God was lying and they were NOT forgiven, or God forgave them. If he really forgave them, it certainly wasn't because of the blood of bulls and goats. It was because of Christ. Right there in the middle of the Covenant with Moses.
The New Testament, i.e. Gal. 5 - makes it clear that obedience is not left out of the Covenant. It is left out of JUSTIFICATION, but Justification is not the covenant.
What you are doing is saying that Sinai is in the same box as the CofW, and then adding so many qualifications that it doesn't fit in the CofW box at all. You're actually describing the CofG.
I don't think that republication theology is heretical, but it doesn't seem to fit either the Bible's view of the Covenants or the WCF. You can't demand a black and white view of the CofW and CofG as you do, stating that men who don't distinguish them correctly should be disciplined and defrocked, and then confuse them yourself in a different way. That you want to make the black and white into dark and light grey is only more proof of this.
-J.Kru (1189 is just my attempt at a blog)
Correct me if Iam wrong but I did not know non-Lutherans had a division of theology known as Law/gospel.
ReplyDeleteAlso curious how folks accuse people of making faith a work. Is it not a contradiction of terms biblically speaking. Paul seems to indicate in Romans 4:4 faith is not a work. “Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work, but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”
Sure faith works, but faith itself is not a work. But Ive heard calvinists tell amrninians who say they must believe the gospel to be saved, that they(the arminians) are making faith a work. How is that? All over the place Jesus said your faith saved you or made you whole. But faith(or believing the gospel) is not a work, even though living faith produces works, faith itself is not a work.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteAlso curious how folks accuse people of making faith a work.
Jesus did this in John 6:28-29, Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
There you go... from Jesus' lips, faith is a work.
J. Kru,
ReplyDeleteOK, let’s back up a bit. All of these comments…
But the CofW was NOT to show Adam his need for a perfect law-keeper. It was to earn his standing before God.
This is nothing like the CofW at all. The CofW demanded perfect and flawless obedience. It is entirely LIKE the New Covenant and the Covenant with Abraham, both of which demand "relative" obedience.
… demonstrate that you’ve ignored my stipulation that the Adamic and Mosaic covenants are not alike in every respect. I stated that there are very significant ways in which they are dissimilar, but that they are similar in that they both demand works for blessing, and both threaten curses for not living up to the standard.
The blessings of the Abrahamic covenant were at least partially dependent on Abraham's obedience to sacrifice Isaac.
We need to clarify the way works function in conditional versus non-conditional covenants. The mere fact that Abraham was told to perform good works does not mean that it is the same kind of covenant as the Sinaitic. Same with the NC. The fact that God passed through the pieces alone in Gen. 15 demonstrates who it is who is supposed to bring the blessing-earning works to the table. On the contrary, in the Mosaic covenant it was not God who swore the oath, but the people who swore it (I made this point once before).
If he really forgave them, it certainly wasn't because of the blood of bulls and goats. It was because of Christ. Right there in the middle of the Covenant with Moses.
Again, you’re ignoring my earlier points. You should really read a defense of traditional Reformed covenant theology (like Horton’s Intro, for example). No one that I am aware of would deny that there were provisions for forgiveness in the OC. That’s not the issue at all.
The New Testament, i.e. Gal. 5 - makes it clear that obedience is not left out of the Covenant. It is left out of JUSTIFICATION, but Justification is not the covenant.
Sorry to be a broken record, but this is not the issue either. No one who affirms the legal nature of the OC would ever deny that the NC demands works. It’s all about the role works play, not whether they need to be performed.
What you are doing is saying that Sinai is in the same box as the CofW, and then adding so many qualifications that it doesn't fit in the CofW box at all. You're actually describing the CofG.
Not really. If a covenant says “do this and live,” it’s a legal covenant. If a covenant says “the work has been done for you by another,” it’s a gracious one.
I don't think that republication theology is heretical, but it doesn't seem to fit either the Bible's view of the Covenants or the WCF.
Again, I think you should familiarize yourself further with the history of Reformed covenant theology. TONS of us have argued that the OC was a legal covenant (even some of the Westminster divines themselves).
Anonymous,
ReplyDeletePlease use the drop-down menu to add a name to your comment. Once you do that, I'd love to send a response.
Sailhamer, et al., notwithstanding.
ReplyDeleteChris, my Sailhamer resource, do you know of any Reformed responses to his newest big book yet?
Not that I know of, Paige. But it will probably be a while, given its length.
ReplyDeleteWith the right reformed L/G view, this was very helpful for me:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.puritanboard.com/f31/what-reformed-view-law-gospel-33247/
Jason,
ReplyDeleteHow do I email you? I can't find any email address for you here on your church webpage. I am sure it is there somewhere.
Anyway, I would like to send you a few encouraging comments on this subject, and also on your book (which we read in my men's reading group), so if you would drop me a line at chris@gracecovenantpca.org.
Thanks!
Chris Hutchinson
Pastor, Grace Covenant PCA
Blacksburg, VA
Oh, encouraging comments from Chris H. are always worth the effort. :)
ReplyDeletepb
Here's my analysis of your argument - and yes, I did read you carefully.
ReplyDeleteNot really. If a covenant says “do this and live,” it’s a legal covenant. If a covenant says “the work has been done for you by another,” it’s a gracious one.
As I demonstrated, the only covenant that says "do this and live" is the covenant in the garden. Every covenant thereafter is hinged upon God's grace.
You want to qualify your statements so that yes, a covenant of works can have grace. But that's what Lane Keister would call "Gospelaw" or whatever his term was. If there is grace, it's a covenant of grace. If there is no grace, it's a covenant of works. All these qualifications indicate a bad definition.
You seem focused on the act of oath-taking. But since you acknowledge that there is no grace in the Adamic covenant, and since you acknowledge that there are things "required" in some way in the every covenant, and since you acknowledge that God makes provision for sin in every covenant (excepted the Adamic) why not just admit that you have a poor working definition?
The Covenant of Works makes no provision for failure, and requires absolute and perfect obedience. The Covenant of Grace, which includes every covenant that comes after the fall and God's mercy on Adam and Eve, makes provision for sin, and require a general faithfulness, primarily not seeking after other gods, which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Making provision for sin is called grace. If God is showing grace, it's not works. By definition. No qualifications allowed.
What you have done is confuse works and grace - you have violated the LGD, the very thing you complain about in your post.
And I should think you would be well aware that it doesn't actually matter if you can find good men in church history, even Westminster divines, who held to your position. A man is not tried and deposed because he did or did not violate the views of the Great Men of Church History. He is tried and deposed if he violates the Scriptures or the Westminster Confession (in the PCA, anyway. This is also why Michael Horton's comments on the subject are of little value to me - he has no allegiance to the WCF, only to documents which predate Westminster, and which also, I believe, predate the discussion we're having.)
There is certainly enough evidence in church history that the LGD, as you hold it, is not theology for crazy people. It's worthy of granting an exception to the WCF. But an exception is still required.
You can't call for minister's heads for mixing up the same stuff you yourself have mixed up.
J.Kru,
ReplyDeleteYou are throwing around some very heavy charges, and simultaneously demonstrating a severe lack of understanding of the issues. I’m trying to be patient and engage you, but it’s getting more and more difficult.
As I demonstrated, the only covenant that says "do this and live" is the covenant in the garden. Every covenant thereafter is hinged upon God's grace.
You demonstrated nothing of the sort. Paul cites as the source for “do this and live” the Mosaic covenant. Go read Gal. 3:10-14.
You want to qualify your statements so that yes, a covenant of works can have grace. But that's what Lane Keister would call "Gospelaw" or whatever his term was. If there is grace, it's a covenant of grace. If there is no grace, it's a covenant of works.
Please. Lane got that term from the men who taught me covenant theology, including Mike Horton (who, contrary to what you write, is bound to the Westminster Standards). Lane would laugh at the thought that his and my theologies are different. If anything, his recent “golawspel” remarks come as the result of his being more and more influenced by WSC, where I studied.
You seem focused on the act of oath-taking. But since you acknowledge that there is no grace in the Adamic covenant, and since you acknowledge that there are things "required" in some way in the every covenant, and since you acknowledge that God makes provision for sin in every covenant (excepted the Adamic) why not just admit that you have a poor working definition?
What I will admit is that I have the same “working definition” of the Mosaic covenant as a large portion of the Reformed tradition, a tradition that you have admitted matters very little to you.
The Covenant of Works makes no provision for failure, and requires absolute and perfect obedience. The Covenant of Grace, which includes every covenant that comes after the fall and God's mercy on Adam and Eve, makes provision for sin, and require a general faithfulness, primarily not seeking after other gods, which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Simply stomping your feet and repeating your position is not an argument. If you read The Law is Not of Faith (Fesko and VanDrunen eds.) you’ll find cogent historical and biblical arguments for the Reformed position on the Mosaic covenant.
Making provision for sin is called grace. If God is showing grace, it's not works. By definition. No qualifications allowed.
Who are you to disallow qualifications? Go read what the Reformed theologians have written about the Mosaic covenant, their writings are full of qualifications. Heck, Paul makes tons of qualifications about the Mosaic covenant (Rom. 7 anyone?)
What you have done is confuse works and grace - you have violated the LGD, the very thing you complain about in your post.
This is laughable. Go ask any theologian who knows me, and they will swear to you that I am completely solid on the difference between works and grace. In fact, your charge against me can also be leveled against Lane, Horton, Clark, Godfrey, VanDrunen, and Kline. Are you seriously willing to say that none of these know the difference between works and grace?
A man is tried and deposed … if he violates the Scriptures or the Westminster Confession.
Are you going to charge me with something formally?
This will most likely be my last response to you. You’re welcome to continue commenting here, but for my part, your charges are so unbelievable, and your understanding of the issues so limited, that writing long comments back and forth is not the best use of my time. I don’t get paid to teach Covenant Theology 101 on the Internet.
Jason, I'm sorry to frustrate you, and I'm sorry to waste your time.
ReplyDeleteI do think I provided ample evidence from Exodux 4, Josiah, David, and Deut. 29. But it's your blog, brother.
I have no intention of charging anyone with anything. I think that you were far too quick to be ready to throw down charges in the last paragraph of your post. I was pointing out that if someone was going to have to get charged with violating WCF on LGD, you would have to charged also, highlighting what I perceive as the irony of your position. I don't think it's unreformed or evil, I just think that the WCF calls the covenant with Moses one of the covenants of grace. That's it. If you think it's a republication of the Covenant of Works, so be it. I think that means you have a disagreement with the WCF, one which is fine to have. But (what was assumed on my point but in retrospect, not clear at all) the idea of charging YOU with heresy is stupid, and I certainly don't think it ought to happen.
Of course, I've read your blog enough to know you hold law and gospel as very distinct. My point, again, was that you don't distinguish it where you ought to, in Sinai. And again, I also realize that many Reformed people hold to that position, and I think it's fine.
And lastly, I thought that Mike Horton was in the URC, and I thought that the URC held men to the three forms of unity, not the WCF. I don't know which of those is incorrect, but apologies to you and Mike Horton. My bad.
Many blessings in your ministry, brother. My sincere apologies for a poor tone and unclear wording. Don't let me ruin your day.